I think a simple change in nomenclature could help Mastodon incredibly. Servers is an inaccurate term and instance is unfamiliar and vague. Both create tension for new users.
Why not simply call Mastodon instances what they are: Communities.
Ask users which Mastodon community they'd like to join. Have community rules, community policy, and community leaders. Not server rules, instance moderators and administrators.
Let me start. Everyone is welcome at our community, https://thecanadian.social
reshared this
Eugen Rochko
in reply to Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag: • • •x - Chad :mstdn:
in reply to Eugen Rochko • • •AJ Sadauskas
in reply to x - Chad :mstdn: • • •@chad @Gargron Then why not use a term like Mastodon provider?
The big problem with using the term "server" is that it basically implies you need to be a *NIX admin to use Mastodon. You don't, but it leaves the impression with people that you do. That it's more technically involved than it really is.
When you sign up to get an email account, you generally don't say "email server". You'd say something like "Gmail is my email provider" or "I have a Hotmail account".
Use the same terminology as email. Explain to people that it's just like email.
And just like you can email people on Yahoo from Gmail, people using different Mastodon providers can see your posts.
People understand email. Explain to new users that Mastodon works just like email — except for social media.
reshared this
AJ Sadauskas and mekka okereke :verified: reshared this.
Chris Murphy
in reply to AJ Sadauskas • • •AJ Sadauskas reshared this.
Jef Poskanzer :batman:
in reply to AJ Sadauskas • • •AJ Sadauskas reshared this.
Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag:
in reply to AJ Sadauskas • • •Henriko
in reply to AJ Sadauskas • • •"Cities for people, not cars!"
AGREED 300%
Good girl. Greetings from Finland. Cars are a plague, already contaminated our drinking water by microplastic granulates (tyres). I go by bike everywhere. Sharing now a post on my timeline about Christmas. Would like to know you more. If you want to see something funny btw, checkout my little creation "Miss Mixy" @MissMixyYT
Merry Christmas !
@ajsadauskas @chad @Gargron @mike
James Alegría 🏳️🌈 🏳️⚧️
in reply to AJ Sadauskas • • •AJ Sadauskas reshared this.
🌈 Espii 🏳️⚧️
in reply to AJ Sadauskas • • •@ajsadauskas @chad @Gargron i truly dont believe many people have a problem or are at all confused by the fediverse nomenclature and terminology.
what people do have a problem with is the fragmented and confusing experience they get here, the difficulty finding and picking instance/community right from the start without knowing anything about it, the exhausting expectations and heavy handed moderation in some instances, the smugness of the community, the uncertainty of whether some petty inter-instance beef might leave you unable to engage with people you care about and so on, the smugness of the community, the difficulty to organically find related topics and people... it's all confusing and complicated, and sure it's not really complicated, but it's more effort than most people are willing to put into a social media account.
im not convinced those things can ever change and it's why the fediverse will always be the alternative niche social media.
Kasey Strube
in reply to AJ Sadauskas • • •AJ Sadauskas reshared this.
Eckes :mastodon:
in reply to AJ Sadauskas • • •Jørn
in reply to AJ Sadauskas • • •The Animal and the Machine
in reply to AJ Sadauskas • • •AJ Sadauskas reshared this.
Michael Bauser
in reply to AJ Sadauskas • • •@ajsadauskas @chad @Gargron But it's *not* just like email, because email networks aren't chopped up by factionalism (c.f. #threads) the way the #fediverse is.
Most people see email as a "neutral" (apolitical) tool, to the point that email providers might as well be another utility like their phone company. Nothing in the Fediverse is that neutral.
Everybody who says "it's just like email" is misleading potential new users.
Michael Bauser
in reply to AJ Sadauskas • • •@ajsadauskas @chad @Gargron Anybody who can't handle the word "server" probably gave up before they read that far, because the word "Fediverse" stumped them hard.
It's not the little things breaking newbies' brains. It's *the* big thing. Comparing the #Fediverse to email and whatnot doesn't work, because it's not like those things. It's a new, big, confusing thing that nobody is very good at explaining yet.
Idealistic Pragmatist :mstdn:
in reply to x - Chad :mstdn: • • •Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag:
in reply to Idealistic Pragmatist :mstdn: • • •Jon
in reply to Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag: • • •Great question. @Gargron's said his vision is one where instances / servers / whatever you want to call them *don't* add value, they're just a way to access the broader network. That's missing what the fediverse is uniquely good at at, and Mastodon (if it merged in and built on changes from the fork) could be a great platform for -- networked communities -- but at the end of the day he's the BDFL so the code and positioning reflect his vision.
@IPEdmonton @chad
Jon
in reply to Jon • • •here's the quote by @Gargron I was thinking of, from November 2022
""The ideal system is one where there are a whole bunch of different servers, all roughly the same size, and it doesn’t matter which one you use, because they’re all interconnected."
https://www.theverge.com/23658648/mastodon-ceo-twitter-interview-elon-musk-twitter
@IPEdmonton @chad
Can Mastodon seize the moment from Twitter?
Nilay Patel (The Verge)Tim Chambers
in reply to Jon • • •Idealistic Pragmatist :mstdn:
in reply to Tim Chambers • • •Tim Chambers
in reply to Idealistic Pragmatist :mstdn: • • •Jon
in reply to Tim Chambers • • •@tchambers Yeah like I say I think it's been a been a huge mistake for Mastodon not to emphasize this more and better support it. But oh well. https://heat-shield.space/mastodon_two_camps.html is a good look at the tensions between the "bigger is better" flat view and the "networked communities" view.
@IPEdmonton @mike @Gargron @chad
The Two Camps of Mastodon
heat-shield.spaceJon
in reply to Tim Chambers • • •@tchambers Perhaps I'm wrong, if so I'd be delighted to be corrected!
@mike @IPEdmonton @chad
Michael Foster
in reply to Jon • • •Jon
in reply to Michael Foster • • •Agreed the views aren't necessarily contradictory -- both the links I shared elsewhere in the thread emphasize that -- but in practice there are major tensions, especially with finite resources. Mastodon's development has historically favored the "big conversation" view at the expense of the local communities view. Local-only posts and the reduced visibility of the local feed are two high-profile examples.
@michael @tchambers @mike @IPEdmonton @chad
Tim Chambers
in reply to Jon • • •Jon
in reply to Tim Chambers • • •Interesting data, thanks! But ...
Measured in terms of monthly active users, .social has gone from about 17.5% of Mastodon's total MAU in May to 27% today.
Of course that's not the only measure of centralization but still it's an important one. So I don't think the concern I expressed back then turned out to be imagined or hypothetical.
EDIT: data comes from fedidb
@michael @mike @IPEdmonton @chad
Tim Chambers
in reply to Jon • • •Jon
in reply to Tim Chambers • • •utzer [Friendica]
in reply to Eugen Rochko • • •@Eugen Rochko I remember that time when new users created half a dozen accounts on different servers. This got rare today.
@Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag:
abovearth
in reply to Eugen Rochko • • •@Gargron
@mike
I agree, the server I am on does not feel like a community to me. I like being on the server. I have no complaints about the administration or moderation. But I am not on this server for its community,
I am here to interact with the fediverse.
Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag:
in reply to Eugen Rochko • • •Usually the value is in both the moderation style and the interaction of users with each other and the admins, to form, you guessed it... a community.
I'd like to think people that run instances aren't simply volunteer load balancers.
Jeff
in reply to Eugen Rochko • • •#SocialMedia provider or #socialmedia instance.
#Mastodon and #threads, and #bsky and others are brands. And brands carry baggage.
Just like we host #email. We also host #social
Very few care what is under the hood of our email servers. And it should be the same for social.
Dieu
in reply to Eugen Rochko • • •Tim Chambers
in reply to Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag: • • •@KevinMarks
I like that a lot Mark… I’ve been calling them “community servers” in our explainer posts at Indieweb.social
Darnell Clayton :verified:
Unknown parent • • •Jon
Unknown parent • • •@marcelcosta @michael @tchambers @ArtBear @IPEdmonton @chad @darnell @mike
Jon
Unknown parent • • •Yep. The frustrating thing is that the future could be now, it's just a path that hasn't been taken. @darnell had a post a while ago sketching how "InstaPost" could have a really compelling offering along somewhat along this line, it'd be kid of ironic if Meta winds up doing it first lolsob.
@ArtBear @mike @tchambers @michael @IPEdmonton @chad
marcelcosta
in reply to Jon • • •The problem that I see for an easy-self-hosting fediverse is that tends to individualism and again eliminates the communal part. For us (the communities I am part of), the server administration is just part of a community growth. While I would say the technical part is not easy nor difficult (at least at small sizes), there are other important things that are discussed, shared and agreed such as how to finance the server costs, how to moderate, how to increase the internal visibility of the members, etc… I seems that the server organization fits so well with the movement organization we need.
I do get that other communities in other parts of the world may have other necessities or priorities, so I respect that, of course.
Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag:
Unknown parent • • •Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag: (@mike@thecanadian.social)
TheCanadian.SocialRussell Garner
in reply to Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag: • • •Dawn Ahukanna
in reply to Russell Garner • • •Agreed. The irresistible urge to fragment people into one perspective is understood but artificial. People are an aggregation of their biochemistry and lived experience physiology - https://mastodon.social/@dahukanna/111680757956319512
Dawn Ahukanna (@dahukanna@mastodon.social)
MastodonMike Fraser :Jets: :flag:
in reply to Russell Garner • • •Russell Garner
in reply to Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag: • • •Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag:
in reply to Russell Garner • • •Russell Garner
in reply to Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag: • • •Russell Garner
in reply to Russell Garner • • •Dawn Ahukanna
in reply to Russell Garner • • •@rgarner
> Will that put people off in the same way or will they pay interaction designers?
“Put people off in the same way” is much cheaper than employing Designers to tell you “you are doing people wrong”.
Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag:
in reply to Russell Garner • • •Russell Garner
in reply to Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag: • • •@dahukanna I don't see Threads doing anything in the fediverse except being comprehensively defederated quickly or causing a variety of technical countermeasure updates to the ActivityStream RFC to enable it to somehow admit only the less breathlessly bigoted of its denizens. It's as toxic as
and it has the potential to drive Fedi usage down.
Although, as @stavvers has pointed out, we can voluntarily defederate our own instances from Threads by vexatiously posting hole.
Russell Garner
in reply to Russell Garner • • •