A fun way to share your events, voice your thoughts, and help others in the HG community! Q&A Session (reverse webinar) hosted by Infinite Metaverse Alliance (IMA) weekly.
*Video, audio, and chat may be captured for those who cannot attend.*
To learn more about IMA, visit our main website at infinitemetaverse.com [[Category:Social]]
People who say they're apolitical, that they don't follow politics, or wonder why people "make everything political" aren't aware that they're privileged enough to not be affected by it. When political parties make it their mission to deny rights to people based on their gender or sexuality, they make that demographic's very existence a political issue.
Human rights isn't an issue that people can be neutral on. Silence is always the ally of the oppressor, not the oppressed.
As the Fediverse grows, I am seeing posts by some who are unable to find instances accepting public registrations which creates a barrier to adoption. On the one hand, users who find this too much trouble give up. On the other hand, users with FOMO or friends here inviting them are asking for help. Here are some tips to share:
For Mastodon, I found using Wizard mode on https://instances.social/ the best "chooser" but if you don't trust it you can check https://fediverse.observer/ then sort via the signup columns. Even if you create an account on https://social.vivaldi.net/ for Vivaldi users or another instance, you can always migrate to a different instance in the future.
For Friendica, (a macroblog used by people who want more features than Mastodon offers - more like FB than TW), you can use the fediverse resource above or you can use the 'by language' directory of public servers here https://dir.friendica.social/servers
@Cheryl Furse Nerdica.net is running Friendica software. I do not know if the admin has set a character limit on posts. (I am not the admin.) Friendica docs for admins are here https://wiki.friendi.ca/
@Cheryl Furse I am rarely in SL and often in OS. I do own a grid we are in the process of upgrading before we allow public registrations. A lot of work to be done first. I lead a viewer project for OS only that is focused on accessibility by design and often speak at OSCC. We hold a weekly HG Fireside Chat if you want to join us! We also hosted this year's OSFest2022 and planning to host OSFest2023.
Yes I only park my Avi at HBC in SL like Walter of littlefield. Just saturdays in Dark Fog in SL because Silver Mare of mare grid is DJ there. My home sim is decadence of decadence grid. So you are building on Firestorm? Then please build a Firestorm for M1 Macs. I run my Firestorm on the Emulator Rosetta. Everyone tells me that I just run Firestorm on one cylinder of my V8 engine.
OSfest I was just once to look. Was mostly karaoke of some singers and most happened when I slept. I live in Germany and you had most concerts in the middle of the night for me. Was not my time. What is HG Fireside chat?
@Cheryl Furse We had 108 performers over three weekends - some singers, some DJs, some poets, some prose. It was 12 hours each Saturday and Sunday in an attempt to hit all the time zones we could. But it was exhausting for me and our admin to support 16 hours per day for 17+days plus the build a few months prior. We had some great volunteers that helped out in world but we definitely need more vols in 2023 and will space out performers during the week. Not sure how that will fit in with time zones though. If some want to perform at different times we can accommodate that!
HG Fireside Chat is simply an hour on Wednesdays 5 pm Pacific Time to gather, share events to be promoted, ask or offer help with projects, or generally meet others and have conversation. Sometimes the conversation goes overtime of course ha! Tonight is cancelled for the holiday but we resume next week. You can TP over from Decadence - HG info will be posted.
Yes I guess so. Mostly americans and Walter was DJ too but for me at 4 in the morning at the time. Then I slept. your pacific time is then for me 9 hours difference. Then I sleep. But thanks.
@Cheryl Furse Our viewer is called SceneGate forked a few years back from Alchemy. It is focused on the needs of new users (to make it easy to use) and the needs of disabled users. Beq added our hearing accessibility feature to FS so that is a good thing. ;) Mac devs are rare in OS/SL but you can blame Apple for that with their approaches and different system versions not being backwards compatible. When working with volunteers we cannot expect full-time coders that can keep up with Apple. I am recruiting devs best I can.
Perhaps apple works together with thirdroom from Matrix? This works best with Safari in highest resolution. So they are not interested in promoting secondlife and opensim anymore?
@Cheryl Furse Matrix thirdroom is something I have not looked at yet. The viewer dev issue on Mac also involves GPU changes to Vulkan which is a lot of code work.
Matrix built thirdroom. It is also a open source decentralized Metaverse. It is just running with internet browser. You don't need a viewer and has hihest resolution and 60 fps and looks smooth. There is already a showroom to look there. You just have to download 51 MB when signing in for an account. Is newest high tech technology and should get better graphics than resident evil when finished but with same features like SL or OS. Avis are not built yet. Lookhere https://thirdroom.io/preview
@Cheryl Furse So there is a download that is too bad. Sinespace using Unity3D is similar. Neither of them support the hypergrid protocol and each ahs their own skeleton and scripting languages so anims and scripted objects are not portable. This is the barrier to the Infinite Metaverse I envision. For profit companies are never going to agree to a standard avatar because they want to lock users to their tech. I am interested in open-source projects that want to collaborate.
glTF (GL Transmission Format) is a royalty-free specification for the efficient transmission and loading of 3D scenes and models by engines and applications.
When you look at the pictures on the sides and 3D previews then you can't shut your mouth again. It will be then same quality like resident evil release 4 in 3 months. Then SL looks just like Lego in stone age lol
@Cheryl Furse The viewer projects will eventually get PBR materials and gltf format support. This is independent of what I mean by skeletons which define the bones and joints and are associated with the uv mapping and the skin weighting. The only current ISO standard is the old h-anim2 standard that LL chose to deviate from. Every 3D platform out there makes a choice during development. The vrm above is associated with VR headgear accessed avatars not desktop AFAIK but things are evolving... unfortunately not along the lines of an industry standard that needs an update. Too many are trying to reinvent the wheel rather than collaborate. The fact thirdroom needs to download anything even if a one time thing, is a barrier to adoption the same as downloading a viewer is. Educators, companies, and agencies are often prohibited from installing anything downloaded.
The downloads are cookies. If it is like that then you can get it. Here from my signing in last days with firefox to try out. The assets problem at OSgrid is big. It takes long that all is loaded. Try out thirdroom and look by yourself. It is just one "sim" but takes just 51 MB and quality not worse than SL
okay so far. I have no clue about all the new technology. I'm just excited to see all the new things and look forward on resident evil in 3 months. This will be great. Have you seen already the previews? The Avis are like real persons in movies. There is no difference anymore.
The previews don't load for me but I may not be making myself clear. Downloading anything is prohibitive for educators, companies, and agencies with security processes in place. This includes tracking or content caching. A true high end browser based virtual world renderer (the holy grail) has not been accomplished as of yet. From what did download for me, I saw robot style generic avatars. On a preview page I saw anime cartoon style examples. This is not of interest for me but ok for others.
I am looking for realism and that can be achieved in OS as there are projects underway to improve the viewer system avatars to be comparable to lifelike mesh avatars. This will be accompanied by the PBR and gltf improvements coming. The browser itself has bandwidth limitations that wont be overcome anytime soon for high end rendering to no fault of those who make the content (it's a browser tech issue). The other comments about the bones/joints etc (skeleton) relates to the need for interoperability that industry standards adoption affords.
The issue I see right now with the thirdroom technical approach is a lack of understanding the tech must be built around the avatar skeleton. They built an environment and are adding avatars after the fact. This is going to result in yet another platform that is not interoperable if they do not use an industry standard skeleton.
They could learn from those of us who "have always been here" since the beginning - much like new devs in the Fediverse need to learn from existing devs. The user comes first - you dev everything around the user needs and do things based on industry standards. It's dissappointing to see Matrix devs not building around the avatar needs. But whether they do or not, as long as a download/save is required, it is not something I would invest any time in using. I already support a platform with great potential built around avatar needs. I am hopeful our interns help move our viewer to a modern game engine and later web rendering.
For the SL/OS folks on this thread, the closest thing to web-based rendering is speedlight.io. I tested the latest improvements they made to replace stickman avatars with system/mesh avatars in SL. The rendering was improved but movement was extremely laggy due to browser limitations. This is not immersive or acceptable to most users. The fact is, as with web page design, the user's attention is lost within 2 seconds. The same is true for the fediverse based immer space worlds. I tested it as well even with their cartoon style avatars - navigation was far too slow even with no one else in the world. WebGL based virtual worlds in general use extremely low poly environments and avatars for a reason - browser limitations. If that meets your needs great! It does not meet mine though ;)
Our next generation of the OS viewer we work on attempts to replace the LL renderer with a customized GODOT 4.x render engine via an API designed to communicate with the rest of the viewer code that communicates with the server. Eventually the idea is to replace the render engine with a web-based render engine and recode the rest of the viewer so it can be served by the browser. That likely involves the development of server side rendering rather than the current client side rendering. As the Internet gets faster and we find a way to provide a guaranteed minimum FPS suitable for VR headgear, we can eliminate the nausea and disorientation experienced after 15 minutes use by 40% of participants studied. Then we can achieve greater immersion. But it will take some dev time in years for that to happen.
The bottom line is, users want higher visual quality and greater immersion. Disabled users need their needs met and not be seen as an afterthought not a part of commercial target markets. I'm here because someone needs to be their voice that companies often ignore. Everything we do on projects I engage in focuses on the needs of all users. When we design for accessibility, everyone benefits. (Stepping off the soapbox.)
@Cheryl Furse I don't use safari and it is likely not allowed on systems used by educators, students, companies, and agencies that have security processes in place... but it doesnt matter... the download/save aspect is why it doesnt meet my needs even if they end up creating industry standards or SL/OS skeleton avatars and improving visual quality over what is previewed
Safari is not allowed? Never heard such. What are you talking? What is the problem with Download/save aspects that doesn't meet your needs? Could you explain what you mean?
@Cheryl Furse Perhaps you missed it above but I will clarify :)
For educators, students, and employees that use computer systems at places where they are not allowed to use anything other than the software installed by the network admin, one barrier to using SL/OS is the need to download a viewer. They are blocked from doing so. The same is true for Thirdroom because you must download/save (on account creation). Users of those systems will not be allowed to do so without prior network admin approval - in other words the same barrier to using virtual worlds.
The use of Safari also is often not allowed because the network admin doesn't install it (Edge/Chrome are most used by IT). These decisions are made by IT department heads not users. Most network-connected computers for business, academic, and government networks are running Windows using Edge/Chrome browsers. In some cases, Linux is used for servers or student desktops. Mac is unfortunately not common for these users. It is also the least common among users of SL/OS based on surveys done.
Side note: Security of voice and viewer software is on our radar in terms of projects we are working on. But this has nothing to do with the above.
my Mac and router also blocks voice with firestorm. It says I have to open a lot of ports and should ask my Network Administrator to open ports lol But we have on Decadence anyway no voice. Is not secure anyway. I have read that one should never use Chrome although it is the fastest. I use Firefox and Tor. But as Mac User I can use also safari and for thirdroom it is great working. Every developer in graphics and movies uses naturally Macs. There it common because faster rendering
but it doesn't matter anyway what companies or government department want. OS or SL or metaverse is just for normal users as hobby. It is a game. I don't think that workers at companies play SL at work lol
@Cheryl Furse That may be your use case and perspective ;) But OpenSimulator use cases include business, schools, and government - perhaps not well-known by others. The technology is used (sometimes not connected to the hypergrid where security or user protection are concerns) for modeling, simulation, collaboration, meetings, classes, and training. Not everyone sees it as a game. Companies moved away from SL when their enterprise offering failed and government moved away from SL when their price doubled.
I see only AMV who have classes like in school for blender and SFposer and such. But I don't think it is used by students. In OS the average user are 60 yo white men lol and total retro and talk about old times. My Daddy is also still on world com meeting every Saturday night. Out of the 90s. lol You remind me of him. You also talk like retro old man. haha
@Cheryl Furse Yup, I am aware Mac is popular among graphic artists. Great for those who can afford it!
As for web-based rendering another consideration I have is GPU capability. Most laptop and mid-range desktops do not have separate graphics cards. Their graphics are rendered by 'onboard' graphics and not the same quality and slower to render compared to what Mac users see. Apple products are expensive while Windows products are affordable to most users - even some who are creators. Linux is lowest cost but hardest to learn to use because there are so many variations of operating systems. Most Windows hardware systems used in business, education, and government will be these midrange systems without separate graphics cards.
Vivox voice is not secure enough for many in the sense that it is a cloud based service and cannot run on a local server. I don't have to open ports but I do have to set a rule for the Firewall. Newer Vivox V5 supports Mac but dropped support for Linux. Our voice project we are trying to raise funds to develop can be secure, locally hosted, encrypted voice, and supports all three major operating systems. Our viewer project, in conjunction with opensim dev updates coming, will take care of the login security concern. Beq I am sure will also update FS when that happens.
Well this is not true. My Macbook Air just costs 1100 euro. We tested it with a 3500 euro Windows gamer Laptop and used the same 8GB file for rendering. I just went in the kitchen for a coffee and was less than 3 minutes when finished. He had to wait half an hour. 10 times longer. So it is not true. A Macbook is much cheaper. The problem is that Firestorm is running on a emulator that pretends as if I have a Intel processor. So only one GPU Kernel is used. It is a software problem.
@Cheryl Furse Your testing is certainly valid for your needs. Good on you to compare!
Based on our own survey data over the past few years (we need to run a new one), most Windows users are running $400 USD laptops. Creators might have Windows gaming systems but of those I spoke to over the years, they choose ASUS which can be found at $650 USD. The FS issue you describe for your Mac is a software issue that you should report on their issue tracker.
I have no doubt your experience meeting mostly 60+ white men shapes your perspective. All use cases are valid use cases. Some view it as a game, hobby, etc while others use it as an extension of their lives so not a game. Some embody their avatar as an expression of their creativity or aspirations while others see avatars as game characters.
Here is my perspective: I am a systems engineer, so my posts reflect that experience. I am also a creator/builder and a DJ in world when I have time. I embody my avatar as an extension of myself and am not male as shown in my profile.
To serve a community with development projects designed to fill gaps in user needs, one must understand the community demographics. This is why I have info handy ;)
Per the 2015 VW Survey that included SL/OS users, the majority are women and the age average is not 60+
M 37.9% F 59.8% T (Real-life transgender) 2.3%
Generation Y 1984-2002 (1994) 17.5% Generation X 1965-1983 45.2% Baby Boomers 1946-1964 36.2% Silent Generation 1927-1945 1.1%
Per recent marketing data, Generation Z expects to double the average time spent in the Metaverse.
There is a lot of other data on demographics - including % of people with disabilities, % identifying within the LGBTQ+ community, and % living in poverty. A new survey of the 2015 survey magnitude should be conducted. Hope someone gets that funded and done because the information is valuable!
well 7 years old and then of SL and OS together? And how many took part of the survey? In general women vote much more for polls in internet. I see surveys for OS on websites and then just 30 or 50 take part of it. Is not much to get statistics. I am really long enough in OS to know that a lot is just marketing to survive. The time for openGL Metaverse is over. As you said most have now cheap Laptops. If you want to have high framerate you need expensive graphic cards that take 250 Watt
for poor people not affordable and energy costs rise. To have computer that takes 500, 700, 1000 or even 2000 watt is crazy today and this just to play games like secondlife or opensim. That's why I like the webbrowser solution of thirdroom. Everyone can use it with high framerate.
@Cheryl Furse This was not an online poll type survey... it was an academic study, participants were surveyed individually, and it has been peer reviewed as valid. Our own informal survey we conducted in 2018 is on par with the 2015 survey. An interesting stat from the survey is that 38% report under $10,000 USD annual income - this is why many cannot afford high end systems to get higher FPS. We simply cannot dismiss their needs :)
Attendees at our weekly gatherings and at OSFest and OSCC range in ages that are similar and most are female. None of those activities involve adult oriented activities nor do they involve gaming. They are social events where users exhibit, perform, present, or talk about what they are doing in Virtual Worlds that they want to promote, items they can't find, or ask for help scripting.
Yes I was first on AMV and know them all. But are also older women. By the way my head is still the standard Avi of AMV when you get account there. Never changed it. It is as it is and when you look at AMV then there is average age 60 normal. Fortnite has average age of 27 and Resident evil has really mostly 20 yo girls. Especially BDSM modified RE. It's completely other culture and want action. I also was never attending classes in AMV. Was just dumb blond there. Never wanted to build
@Cheryl Furse AMV is a relatively new grid with its own culture for sure. One way to know what is happening where is to check opensimworld.com and various grid websites with their own calendars.
haha there I'm banned because I say to use Tor for this website. It has a lot of tracker and cookies and when Oni from copycat even promoted the website and said that one should not use ad blockers for this website and I was in war with him I was banned totally. Then I deleted my account there. They are just showing pictures of their stolen creation from secondlife. Is all just potemkin village there. Not important. We have no beacon also anymore there. I know them all. Even their alts
@Cheryl Furse I am a huge advocate for creator rights. Those who steal (copybot) content whether from SL or OS are not welcome in my grid. Difficult to address given the hypergrid as implemented today. But there is a group of grid owners and developers working together to find a way to combat theft best they can shy of changes to core source code.
OS is not as peaceful as it pretends. A lot of wars are there and a lot resulting from old times 10 years ago. It is just a community of old white men who fight for power. But there is nothing to win. It is just for their own ego. They talk paternalistic and even think that a female sub has to obey everyone. When they got aware that I own a Dr. rer. nat. then it was over and they feared me. lol
@Cheryl Furse I hear you but there are exceptions. (I know OS grids owned by: companies, non-profit orgs, women, gays, lesbians, trans, and enbys in addition to the ones owned by white men.)
Look at Zeta. A german company. If they can't spy they ban every DDNS grid. Even copycat although static IP. Dame is gone for good because all is so fucked up with the wars there. It is just a war of old men losers. There is nothing to win. It is just for their ego and although they all have no testosterone anymore and fight with their prostate lol they think they could have a thrill with this. Just big boys playing with Barbie and Lego. In RL I would never want to know one of them
Don't misunderstand me. I love the idea of decentralized open source and also the "sharing is caring" philosophy. But here we can see as social experiment what it finally results out of old people who are not really skilled and just want to feel like god. That's all
We know in BDSM scene very well the quote of Lincoln: Give a man power then you can see his character. Often lousy character in OS of old men who just sit bored behind their computer because retired.
If people are not skilled to really build from the stretch what should they do? Look at Kitely. Everyone thinks he can make some money just by puting another texture in a copyboted carpet and put an AVsitter in. Even I can do this. But I wouldn't dare to take money for such. That we have all full prim is on the other side great because then we can learn how to build and modify. But no one should think that this is his own creation. Some people feel even like artists by this.It's nothing
we have not really skilled people in OS. That's the biggest problem. And if someone is skilled and can code he/she will hide it. My best friend and sis in OS is gone for good out of OS. Only 3 or 4 people knew that she was a real professional coder. She just wanted to live a lifestyle in Os but she couldn't. Now she is gone in RL. If we would have just 5 or 10 real skilled people a lot would be better. We have not even solved RLV problems after 10 years HG. It is flaw and delitantic
@Cheryl Furse Sorry for your loss :( As for good coders and creators, they are in OS but most do not sell on Kitely Market. I don't for sure but I do sell direct on commission like others. I love that users without pro training can learn to create! I refuse the notion some say that we should turn a blind eye to theft because it is difficult to combat. There is a new Trusted Grid concept well underway that may eventually split the Hyperverse into trusted and untrusted grids from a merchant perspective - but to attract more merchants, they need to know someone has their back. By attracting more merchants, the community grows.
time is over. If you had done this 7 years ago ok. But now the 25 yo technology is much too old and OS will only change when SL will change. To be honest OS is just a clone of SL and 95 % of coding is the same. 5 % are just cosmetics. And there is no one who is really skilled. You see it even at SL Viewer. As long there is no Viewer for M1/M2 Macs there will be no new firestorm too. They tell it explicitely. Even this is all copied in truth. We call it open source lol
@Cheryl Furse The tech is not bad, communities are thriving but I agree it needs to be modernized and that is what is currently in work by non-core devs. If core wants to pick up the work for others, it is open-source as you say. Your FS issue has to be handled via FS devs. Our viewer is not based on FS.
or openGL has to be updated with a revolution. But I don't believe that this is possible. When was the last update with real progress? Could be 7 years ago too. But real power out of openGL was more 10 years ago. No one is coding anymore for it. So best will be to look at Matrix and thirdroom. I think this is really then state of art and will blow all away.
@Cheryl Furse Thanks for recommendation. ATM it does not meet my needs on several fronts. As I said before, I may be interested in collab with them IF they implement a standards-based avatar that can be interoperable. That is yet to be seen and it appears to me they have a long way to go to meet the needs of a suitably large market.
I've seen many open-source projects with good intentions die because they do not address user needs. Many devs think they know what users want and some are even arrogant enough to believe users want whatever they offer them.
One can have the best tech out there but if they don't have enough users because they didn't pay attention to what users want, the project dies. Devs should listen to users.
Perhaps thirdroom works also best on Safari because then all the professional graphic cracks work on it. Could be. Who knows? Best is always to be artist AND scripter to get great results. I learned a lot in OS although now the magic is gone I wanted to preserve. Now I'm not innocent anymore and can't wonder like a child anymore how all is working. When I was in SL it was all magic for me and I loved it. One area in STEM I hve no clue and can be the dumb blond. Now it's gone forever. 😞
As it was from the beginning the motto of second life for everyone who wants to have a second life.literally. With VR it will be much more realistic and perhaps you wear a sensory suit in time lol There are a lot of sci fi movies about this theme what could be. Do you know the movie Free guy? What if NPCs get aware they are NPC? lol
This is my first post on Friendica. I'm looking for a trustworthy alternative to Facebook, allowing me to connect to other people and exchange content with them. Friendica seems interesting, as it adopts the principles of decentralized, federated & non-commercial platforms.
PadreWil
in reply to Critical Cupcake • • •Jargoggles
in reply to Critical Cupcake • • •People who say they're apolitical, that they don't follow politics, or wonder why people "make everything political" aren't aware that they're privileged enough to not be affected by it. When political parties make it their mission to deny rights to people based on their gender or sexuality, they make that demographic's very existence a political issue.
Human rights isn't an issue that people can be neutral on. Silence is always the ally of the oppressor, not the oppressed.
Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE
in reply to Jargoggles • • •@jargoggles Our kid: "I'm not interested in politics."
Us: "So what are you interested in then?"
Kid: lists things like education, transport, ...
Us: "So how do you think decisions about providing such things are made then?"
Kid [after a short delay, but only short, he's not stupid]: "Oh."